Daniel 8 wrote about the US-Iran Conflict 2500 years ago...
Don't read if you can't handle strong truth...
Daniel 8
Where is the US war with Iran in Prophecy?
Can an ancient book foretell the future?
Foretelling the future, sometimes called the gift of prophecy, is usually the provenance of certain highly spiritual individuals, such as soothsayers, witches, medicine doctors, sages and other clairvoyants. When these prophecies are written down, they can be tested and verified … or debunked. When I was a young man many decades ago, I became fascinated with the very idea of prophecy. How can anyone claim to know the future? I read the prophecies of Edgar Cayce, I read all the prophecies of Nostradamus, I read the prophecies of St. Malachy, and I searched the prophecies of the Bible. I found out that some scholars insisted that the biblical book of Daniel was not the product of the Daniel who was an advisor to kings in the 5th Century BC, because his writings accurately predicted world events in the future. These critics insisted that the book must have been a 2nd Century BC writing, written after the collapse of the Babylonian and Persian empires which Daniel rightly foretold.
It is from the Bible that I discovered the prophecies that make up the bulk of this book. There is now no question in my mind that prophecy really does exist. That the future can be known long before it happens. If you are skeptical, give this little book a chance. Read through the explanations of the words from ancient prophets.
But beware. There is a huge body of literature covering the domain of “Bible prophecy”, mostly from a conservative Christian perspective. It is the province of most of these works to focus on what is happening in the Middle Eastern land of Israel. There is a firm belief that the current nation of Israel is somehow the intended epicenter of Bible prophecy. However, in the prophetic sections which comprise the text for this book, the nation of Israel is a non-factor. It is the nation of the United States which arises front and center in the ancient chapters examined here.
It seems to me that part of a modern sophisticated worldview is a skepticism, if not outright rejection, of anything in the Bible. It goes something like this: “That book is for the simple, the religious hypocrites who believe its nonsense. It is riddled with errors and inconsistencies.”
This perspective has arisen, perhaps, because many of the people promoting the Bible have done so legalistically, harshly, and with condemnation for outsiders. Perhaps it is an effect of the Enlightenment perspective that all superstition and religion must be abandoned if we are truly to let Reason be our guide. Perhaps the New Age doctrine that we are all gods conflicts with the monotheism of the Bible.
But for whatever reason it has arisen, it is an unfair characterization. The Bible does not have thousands of inconsistencies and different wordings, in fact, the various manuscripts which have been uncovered show a remarkable unanimity as to their wording. For anyone who has truly studied the history of the manuscripts which came together to form the Bible, this is clearly understood. Don’t be the Billy Carson who will be humbled by scholar Wes Huff. The Bible is not riddled with errors and contradictions; it has come down to us very closely to the way it was first written.
So, let’s plow into the book of Daniel, chapter 8, to begin this journey. In this chapter, Daniel receives a vision. He also hears the words of an angelic being who has been instructed to help him understand the vision. We would be foolish to try to interpret the meaning of this vision apart from the commentary provided by the angel. When you have a spirit guide, you should make the most of it.
The vision in Daniel 8 involves a ram with two horns being attacked by a goat that has one notable horn. These animals and their horns represent nations. This conclusion can be drawn by a look at the previous chapter of Daniel. There, the angel tells Daniel what the four beasts that he sees represent.
"These four huge beasts are four empires which will arise on earth.” (Dan 7:17)
The angel says beasts are empires. Animals represent nations, empires. This is not a radical or eccentric idea. Political cartoonists regularly represent nations by drawing animals. For instance, the bear is often used to represent Russia.
So what do rams and goats represent? We will want the angel who appears in this chapter to tell us which empires are represented by the animals appearing in the vision in Daniel 8.
Another question we want the interpreting angel to answer is "When does this vision apply? To what time does it refer?" The angel does not disappoint us in providing the identity of the nations represented by ram and goat and the time frame of their appearance.
As to the question of the time of the vision, the angel says in three different places that the vision is for the time of the end:
1. v. 17: Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
2. v.19a: I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation:
3. v.19b: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
The angel is being very clear that this vision is for the end of time. This is an angel from Heaven speaking, not a human Bible interpreter. It is important to take note of this because most Bible commentators say that this vision is depicting the conquests of Alexander the Great.
A glance at the books on the church shelves and the Christian libraries, a read of all the major commentaries, a consult with the famous radio and TV preachers and a check of materials at the seminaries will agree. The verdict is nearly unanimous. Because biblical commentators for centuries interpreted this vision to be a symbolic representation of Alexander's defeat of the Persian armies it is understandable that we would follow suit. But now we are hearing the words of an angel from Heaven. While it might be our normal default mode to heed the biblical experts, it seems more prudent, when given the chance, to listen first to the voice of an angel. Let it be simply noted: the exploits of Alexander do not come at the “time of the end.”
If the angel’s words can be taken at their face value, then the ultimate application of Daniel’s vision is for a time long after that of Alexander the Great.
As to the second area where we would look to the interpreting angel for help, that of the nations represented by these beasts and horns, we are not left in suspense. The angel says:
20 The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Note in verse 21 that the goat is said to be a king, and then the "great horn" is also said to be a "king." What might appear to be a redundancy in the vision, of having both goat and horn represent a "king" is cleared up upon examining the original language. "King" is from a Hebrew word which is usually translated "reign." Thus, the goat appears to represent a "reign", a territory of potentially vast proportions, whereas the horn would seem to represent one individual king within that larger "reign" or kingdom. Sort of like a state governor as a "king" within the larger "reign" of the United States.
If we are going to be loyal to the interpreting angel, we must find modern meanings for the phrase "kings of Media and Persia." While common sense might say that these names can only refer to the ancient past, that is, the former kingdoms of Media and Persia, a look at the words of the interpreting angel given above would indicate otherwise.
A simple check of any encyclopedia will tell us that modern Iran was formerly called Persia. What about “Media?” The modern ethnic Kurds are the largest people group in the world without a home country. They dwell in several countries, including Iraq. The Kurds claim to be descendants of the ancient Medes, and thus it would be fair to say that the angel is using the name of the ancient nation of "Media" to refer to the area where it once existed, now the approximate area of Iraq and Syria.
We are given another rather interesting clue in this chapter about the nature of the kingdoms we are looking for. In the previous chapter, Daniel 7, ceremonially unclean animals, specifically a leopard, a lion, and a bear, were used to represent secular nations. But here in Daniel 8, the vision is of sacrificial animals: a ram and goat. Sacrificial animals would imply religious conflict. Given the geography we have just uncovered, which includes the nations of Iran, Iraq, and Syria, it could be rationally and logically concluded that the "reign" referred to above is that of Islam.
Another evidence from the text highlighting this secular/religious dichotomy in these visions is that Daniel 7 is written in Aramaic, the tongue of the Gentiles, and Daniel 8 is written in Hebrew, the tongue of the Jews.
The ram symbolizes the fundamentalist power of Islam in the Middle East in a life-or-death struggle with the goat, representing Greece. What power in the modern world is represented by the interpreting angel's mention of "Greece?" If we insisted on interpreting the angel’s words with the literalism that Biblical conservatives and fundamentalists insist upon, we would be forced to say that “Greece” means the modern nation of Greece.
But the Bible must be interpreted with more than simple literalism. For example, Jesus regularly used parables, made up stories that are not actual history, but crafted to make a point. And the Bible is filled with metaphor, one of its key interpretive mechanisms. When Jesus was asked about the parable of the sower, in which a farmer sows seed in various places, He explained that the seed is really a metaphor or symbol for the word of God. Jesus chastised His disciples for not having the understanding to recognize the simple interpretive mechanism of metaphor.
He said, “How then will you understand all of the parables?” (Mark 4:13), indicating the profound place reserved for metaphor. The seed is not a seed; it represents the word. A farmer is not a farmer; he represents someone speaking truth. Weeds are not weeds; they represent the cares of this world.
The culture of fundamentalist literalism should expand its interpretive understanding to encompass a God who is a Spirit. Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned.
What then does the angel mean by the term “Greece”? The apostle Paul talks about “Greeks” several places in the New Testament but he is not referring to people who live in Greece. Instead, he is referring to people who live in the civilized world. For example:
"For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;" (1 Cor 1:22-23)
The Greek word hellen, here translated "Greeks" is also translated as "Gentiles" and basically means a person who speaks Greek, not someone from the literal country of Greece. Greek was the language of the learned. It carried the culture which began with the famous ancient Greek poets and philosophers and ultimately became the basis for what today we call "Western civilization."
Notice that this goat comes from the "west." (v. 5) Thus we have pictured here, in cartoon form, the struggle between Islam and Western civilization, rooted in the culture of Christianity. Since September 11, 2001, is there any struggle on the face of the earth more prominent? The Bible, here in Daniel 8, has zeroed in on our time with amazing singularity.
The angel tells us that the prominent horn on this goat is "the first king." (v. 21)
Here the word translated "first" means "foremost", not necessarily first in terms of order. Who is the foremost, the "first", nation of modern Western civilization? It is certainly the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Thus, we have pictured here in Daniel 8 a vision of the clash of civilizations East and West, a clash of religious cultures, Islamic and Christian.
The prophecy says that two major ram horns, or powers, will arise. The symbolism is saying that two kings or nations will arise from this region, who will tangle with the West.
The first would seem to be the nation of Iraq and its former powerful dictator Saddam Hussein. When his regime was in power there was no diplomatic window dressing. He hated the West and taunted the U.S., calling it “the great Satan.” And, of course, Iraq was invaded by the U.S. The prophecy said the two powers were Media and Persia. Saddam’s Iraq would seem to be the first horn of the ram, the power called “Media.” If so, we can now look for another, the Persian, because the prophecy is plain that the ram has two horns. Now that Iraq has been crushed by the economic and military power of the United States under President Bush, in the Second Gulf War, “Operation Iraqi Freedom,” who is the other horn, the “Persian” horn?
For centuries the land now known as Iran was called “Persia.” It is to Iran that we should look for the fulfillment of the second Islamic horn.
Let us look at the description of these two horns in Daniel 8. The prophecy says:
Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. (Dan 8:3)
As for these two horns being “high”, the Hebrew word carries the idea of being proud. Most observers would agree that Saddam Hussein was a very proud man. As proud as he was before his fall, this prophecy says that the next Middle Eastern power will be even more proud, haughtier.
Iran’s political and religious leaders have been haughty indeed toward the U.S., calling it the Great Satan. The angel says the second horn of the ram is Persia, and we know Persia is Iran.
Many Middle Eastern countries are Arabic and enjoy a solidarity because of this ethnic connection. But Iran is not an Arabic country. In fact, Iran and Iraq fought fiercely with each other in the 1980s. Yet this Daniel 8 vision puts these two powers together, as horns of a single ram. It is not ethnicity that binds these two nations, it is their religion, Islam. The prophecy points to religious, not ethnic, solidarity. The unifying connection of Iraq and Iran is their Islamic connection.
Iran and Iraq are among the few Middle Eastern countries that have more Shiite Muslims than Sunni. The Shiites and Sunnis are the two major divisions of Islam, sort of like the Catholic-Protestant split in Christianity. The Shiites are overall the minority Islamic sect, so their prevalence in Iran and Iraq is significant. Shiites make up less than 20% of Muslims worldwide, but in Iran they make up almost 90% of the Muslim population, and over 60% in Iraq.
Shiites adhere to the teachings of Islamic prophet Muhammad and the religious guidance of his descendants known as Shi'a Imams, whom they consider to be infallible. Shiites assert the right of Ali ibn Abi Talib (Muhammad's cousin and husband of Fatimah, Muhammad’s daughter) as successor to Muhammad, rejecting the legitimacy of the first three caliphs of Islamic history, who the Sunnis accept.
Many Muslims, especially Shiites, believe that a descendant of Muhammad’s, called the “imam Mahdi” will appear with Jesus at the end of time, and restore righteousness, changing the world into a perfect and just Islamic society.
Iran’s current Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has been characterized as a moderate and not the typical diehard Islamic fundamentalist often associated with Iran. He has insisted that the development of nuclear power in Iran must be done for peaceful purposes and that Iran does not have a desire to build an atomic weapon. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has publicly affirmed a religious decree (known as a fatwa) that bans nuclear weapons. He has emphasized that Iran's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes, like generating electricity, and not for developing atomic weapons.
But we are being told in the West that Iran is lying and really developing nuclear weapons. Perhaps we have forgotten that it was proved that Saddam Hussein did not have “weapons of mass destruction” as we were told by Colin Powell and others, which led to our obliteration of Iraq in the Gulf Desert Storm War. We were hoodwinked by George Bush and his willing partner Tony Blair. Is this happening again? Are we being told something that might not be true so we can justify bombing Iran?
Tulsi Gabbard, the US National Intelligence Director, told Congress recently that US spy agencies had assessed that Iran was not building a nuclear weapon, and its supreme leader had not reauthorized the dormant nuclear program. President Trump dismissed this assessment, insisting they were intent upon moving forward with the bomb.
I’m afraid we will never really know.
Iran could certainly be the 2nd Islamic “horn” predicted in the prophecy of Daniel 8. Iranian leaders from many quarters have made many very strong threats to the US and Israel. The animosity to Israel and the West is not hidden. It is certainly easy to see the Iranian pride and haughtiness as the pride pictured in the Daniel 8 prophecy.
Time Magazine shocked many people when over 40 years ago they named Iran’s Ayatullah Khomeini as the man of the year in 1979. He single-handedly moved the nation of Iran from the modern course it had been taking to a radical, fundamental Islamic nation whose laws were tied to the Quran and whose orientation was hostile to the West. This relatively small country seized the U.S. embassy and held the West as a helpless hostage. Here is what Time said about its choice for Man of the Year:
In 1979 the Ayatullah…Khomeini met TIME’s definition of Man of the Year: he was the one who “has done the most to change the news, for better or for worse.”
The orientation of this man of the year was plain: Allah must reign, the U.S. is Satan. This country seems very likely to be the one who spawns the haughty and proud second “high” horn of the Daniel 8 ram.
Let us turn our gaze for a moment from the two proud horns to the goat coming swiftly from the West.
And as I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west over the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. (Dan 8:5)
Here is a power coming from the West. It is another reference to Western civilization. This power comes “over the face of the whole earth and touches not the ground.” This is not a reference to Alexander the Great, no matter how hard commentators try to say these words apply to him. Alexander marshaled his troops on the ground. But in Desert Storm, Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the current Trump initiative we used the air as a main line of initial attack. B-2 bombers flew over “the face of the whole earth” and “touched not the ground” on their mission to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities. Here is indeed another clue that that this is a modern reference. “Not touching the ground” requires sophisticated air travel.
What does the prophecy say will be the response to the rise of this second "horn"? The prophecy said that the goat had a “notable horn between his eyes.” The goat is the West generally, and the horn is the clear leader of the West, the U.S. The unified action of the goat shows that the U.S. is both part of the West, and also that it is leading the way. That is certainly how the war against Iraq transpired. The U.S. led the way, and the rest of the West tagged on. Even though many nations have been angered by the U.S. initiatives in Iraq, this vision still has the U.S. (the horn) connected with the West (the goat.) It seems likely that with President Trump’s attack on Iran, predicted in the prophecy, that other Western nations will get on board. There was no loud outrage from Western nations in the aftermath of the US strike on the Iranian nuclear facilities on September 21, the summer solstice of 2025. No Western nation condemned the action.
Verse 6 says:
And he came to the ram that had the two horns, which I saw standing before the river, and rush upon him in the fury of his power. (Dan 8:6)
This is plainly the description of a frontal attack. The goat will use “the fury” of its “power” in attacking Iran. The characterization of the goat as in a “fury” probably indicates that the initial attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities, will be followed by more robust bombing. While American citizens have largely followed their leaders in condemning Iran for its desire to advance its nuclear capabilities, there is not an active hatred against Iran. Iran will have to do something that mobilizes active animosity for the US to act with the “fury” referred to in the prophecy. The Iranian leaders have said that an attack by the U.S. will be met with massive retaliation. When this happens, it will lead to the anger pictured in the prophecy. The Iranian response, some horrible terrorist incident or bombing of U.S. military bases in the Middle East, will infuriate the U.S. and other Western nations.
Thus, goat and horn, that is, the West and the U.S., will have reason to be very mad at Iran.
Verse 7 says:
And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with anger against him, and smote the ram, and broke his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Verse 7 of Daniel 8 depicts an obliteration of these Islamic forces. The two horns are utterly broken with no one to help. Russia will stand down, and the milder Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia also will not come to the aid of Iran. Saudi Arabia is Sunni and Arab, while Iran is Shiite and Persian. The Islamic connection will not be strong enough for these countries to stand against the U.S. and the West in defense of Iran. It could be that what Iran does to invoke the fury of the West is so despicable that even Islamic partners cannot condone it. In any case, the words of the prophecy are sure: “…there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.” The West will obliterate Iran.
I have been following the stance of the U.S. Pentagon against Iran for 40 years. There has been a growing hatred for Iran, and plans certainly have been in place for what actions to take if the time for attacking Iran ever came. That time has come. Those plans are in motion.
The Scripture says that the goat power is “moved with anger.” The destruction of the World Trade Center towers on September 11, 2001 obviously ignited the anger of the West against Middle Eastern terrorism. Iran’s response to the bombing of its nuclear facilities in June of 2025 will likely be something horrible in the eyes of the West. The atrocity will certainly generate similar anger. One way or another, the prophecy indicates there will be a U.S. strike on a second Middle Eastern country, most likely Iran.
While there is no doubt that the U.S. is technologically superior and more powerful militarily than Iran, a public outcry for war beyond the specific attacks on nuclear facilities is not currently strong. But the American people could be moved to outrage in a moment’s notice if some massive new terrorist action within the United States is linked to Iran. The prophecy of Daniel 8 says the two horns of the ram are demolished. The U.S. military defeat of Iraq and Saddam Hussein was the crushing of the first horn. The second horn, apparently Iran, will also be crushed. The U.S. is on a course that could fulfill the crushing of the second horn.
What does the prophecy say will happen next? Verse 8 says, "Therefore the he-goat waxed very great." Apparently, after crushing the Islamic ram, the U.S. will become very proud. If the U.S. orchestrates a devasting attack on the nation of Iran, there could be a tendency to “rejoice” like this is some kind of football contest. We will be so proud of our Super Bowl sting of these Islamic dogs. Think of when George Bush proclaimed a great victory in the Second Gulf War, “Operation Iraqi Freedom” and flag-waving nationalism followed for a brief period in 2003. Beware when you see the U.S. in its next victory dance of this type, after the second horn is crushed. Verse 8 also succinctly says:
"...and when he was strong, the great horn was broken."
Here is the plain biblical revelation of the fate of the U.S. The symbolism of the "great horn", the United States, being "broken" is a graphic picture of the economic collapse of the U.S. That’s what is depicted by the symbolism of a horn being broken. The horn is not vaporized. The U.S. will still exist. But if the economy of the U.S. suffers a massive depression, the whole world will be weakened, and the U.S. will suffer what all countries experience in such a depression. There will be a massive loss of power, and the subsequent vacuum will quite likely be filled by an authority structure alien to the American model of representative democracy. This topic is one that arises in our study of Revelation 13, to which we will turn in chapter two.[i]
Jesus talked about the purpose of prophecy when he said,
And now I have told you before it comes to pass, that, when it is comes to pass, ye may believe. John 14:29
Thus, one of the purposes of prophecy is not so much that we might have a crystal ball to know the future, but that through the proclamation of prophecy, people will come to faith when the prophecy comes to pass.
I hope that the obliteration of Iran by the U.S. does not happen, and that peaceful solutions can be found for the tensions between these nations. In my own heart I hope that the interpretation of Daniel 8 offered here is wrong. As I stated in the introduction to this work, I am an American, with pride in our nation’s creed, and the liberties we have long guaranteed our citizens. No patriot longs to see the demise of his country.
But my fidelity to my nation cannot stand equal to my attempt to be faithful to God, and what I see in the pages of the Bible. I am trying to faithfully render in these pages what the message of the Bible seems to be. I am putting this into print so that others may have the chance to see what I am seeing. Not everyone will see things as I do. But I must still be true to what I believe the Scripture is saying and what I believe is a word from God for our time..
Let us each then continue this pursuit of America’s place in Bible prophecy by looking into Revelation chapter 13.